Three Ways to Learn
Listen
Watch
Show Notes
How has the Fresh Expressions movement transformed discipleship in the inherited church over the past two decades?
In this episode, Dave Gardner shares insights from the UK on how Fresh Expressions not only reaches new people but also activates discipleship in fresh ways, empowering the priesthood of all believers.
We explore how Fresh Expressions fosters a culture of disciple-making and why the Church of England’s Fruitfulness Framework is pushing the conversation toward new metrics for measuring church impact. If you’re passionate about church renewal, this conversation will challenge and inspire you!
David Gardner serves as Missionary Disciples Project Manager for the Church of England as part of the national vision and strategy team of the Archbishops” Council. He promotes being a church of missionary disciples. Prior to this role he was Director for Mission and Ministry in the Diocese of St Edmundsbury and Ipswich, leading the Mission and Ministry Team that supported all clergy and lay leaders to promote our Growing in God Vision to grow in depth, influence, number and younger. When he is not working David enjoys swimming, gym and running with his wife Karen of 46 years and they are currently training for a Spartan Obstacle Course Race!
In Season 6, we’re diving into discipleship—exploring what it means to follow Jesus and share Jesus in our everyday lives and how churches can cultivate a culture of discipleship that is more than curriculum within their communities.
Related Resources:
Discipleship Reset – a week-long live training experience designed to equip the leaders of the average North American church for the opportunities of 2025. You can still receive access to the replay of all sessions (for FREE!). freshexpressions.com/discipleship-reset
Email us: podcasts@freshexpressions.com
Interview Summary
“All I know is that people are trying things and having a go… we’re beginning to grow and see what God is doing.” — Dave Gardner
In a time when many churches are facing a discipleship crisis, the Fresh Expressions movement offers a glimpse of hope and renewal. This episode of the Fresh Expressions podcast dives deep into what it means to nurture discipleship today with Dave Gardner—a seasoned Church of England leader passionate about cultivating both traditional and emerging forms of church. His insights challenge us to move from maintenance to mission, embracing the creative and transformative work of the Spirit happening outside the walls of inherited church structures.
Dave brings a unique perspective shaped by decades of parish ministry and national leadership. His call is clear: the church must rediscover its vocation by joining in with what God is already doing in our communities.
Discipleship in Crisis: An Invitation to Experiment
We cannot continue to do only the inherited church in the form that it is… there are other opportunities and expressions of the church.
Heather Jallad and Dave begin by naming a hard truth: many traditional churches are shrinking, with fewer and fewer people walking through the doors. But instead of despair, Dave sees this as an opportunity for experimentation—a necessary disruption that allows the Church to reimagine its form and function. Rather than viewing innovation as a threat, we’re invited to see it as a faithful response to the Spirit’s movement.
This shift means moving from a posture of passive waiting to one of active participation—where discipleship becomes a living journey shaped by context, creativity, and courage. The Fresh Expressions movement embodies this spirit, reminding us that church can and should happen wherever people gather in Jesus’ name.
Discipleship as Formation in Action
You saw the difference in their lives… they grew in understanding and ability to reach out to people they were connected to.
A transformative moment in Dave’s ministry came through his leadership in the Mission-Shaped Ministry (MSM) course. Participants—many of them new to faith—committed time and energy to grow in discipleship and explore their missional callings. The impact was clear: people not only deepened their understanding of the gospel but also developed the courage and tools to share it within their natural networks.
This wasn’t theoretical growth—it was practical formation rooted in real relationships. Dave emphasizes that discipleship is most alive when it is active, not abstract. When everyday Christians are invited to lead, serve, and innovate, the church becomes vibrant again.
Discipleship deepens when believers are equipped and released to follow their callings beyond traditional church walls.
The Power of the Priesthood of All Believers
Everyone has got a gifting… some contacts, some experiences. It may be a people group that they’ve got on their heart.
One of the most consistent themes in Dave’s stories is the release of lay leaders. He describes ordinary people—new believers, spiritually restless veterans, and creative thinkers—who initiated fresh expressions of church because they were given space and support to act on their callings. Whether through walking groups, marriage preparation ministries, or neighborhood outreach, these pioneers embodied the New Testament vision of the priesthood of all believers.
Dave argues that the church grows when it shifts from a clergy-centered model to a body-centered one, where every member is empowered to minister. This isn’t just strategic; it’s deeply theological.
They thought of things I never would have. That’s the power of releasing people to serve.
Bridging the Clergy-Lay Divide
Sometimes our leadership tends towards the teacher-pastor model… and the outward-looking gifts become bothersome.
Dave acknowledges that clergy often struggle to embrace innovation. Trained in systems that prioritize pastoral care and teaching, many find apostolic, prophetic, or evangelistic leadership styles difficult to integrate. Yet, without these gifts, the church risks becoming insular.
He calls for a shift in training and imagination—one that equips leaders to support pioneering efforts rather than control them. This includes learning to bless and collaborate with lay pioneers rather than feeling threatened by them. Such a shift will require courage, humility, and a new openness to Spirit-led experimentation.
Rethinking Metrics: The Fruitfulness Framework
“We realized we weren’t measuring the right things.”
Traditionally, church health has been measured by attendance, buildings, and budgets. But Dave introduces a different model—the Fruitfulness Framework—which evaluates discipleship growth in five areas: relationship with God, self, others in the community, alignment with the vision, and confidence in sharing faith.
This shift allows churches to see transformation that might otherwise be invisible—especially in early-stage fresh expressions. For example, participants in one cohort reported dramatic increases in spiritual vitality, personal peace, and engagement in community life.
The Fruitfulness Framework helps us see people’s development with God, themselves, each other, and their impact on community.
Making, Growing, Sending: A Vision for the Church
The local church should be facilitating us to make, grow, and send disciples.
In closing, Dave offers a simple framework for understanding the church’s mission: we are called to make disciples, grow disciples, and send disciples. This means cultivating environments where faith is sparked, deepened, and lived out in everyday life.
Whether through traditional congregations or fresh expressions, the goal remains the same: helping people follow Jesus more faithfully and live as agents of the kingdom in the world.
It’s not just what we do on Sunday—it’s what we do the whole week.
A Church on the Move
Dave Gardner’s vision is clear: we need both the lake and the river. The inherited church and the Fresh Expressions movement are not rivals—they are partners in a mixed ecology of faith. When we release people, redefine success, and choose holy disruption, we begin to see the Church not as an institution to preserve but a movement to participate in.
The fruit is already visible. And it’s only the beginning.
The church, like Christ, is meant to give itself away.
Reflection Questions
- What does discipleship look like in my current context?
- Where do I see opportunities for experimentation and innovation?
- How can we empower more lay leaders in our community?
- What gifts are we underutilizing in our congregation?
- How can we use the Fruitfulness Framework to assess spiritual growth?
- What step can I take this week to help make, grow, or send a disciple?
