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What if discipleship wasn’t just another church program but the heartbeat of your community? How can we move from transactional models to a way of life that transforms both leaders and those they serve?
In this episode, Eun Strawser—church planter, physician, professor, and author of Centering Discipleship—joins Heather to explore how pastors and church leaders can shift discipleship from the periphery to the core of their church life. They discuss moving from program-based approaches to discipleship as a pathway, a shift that has transformed Eun’s ministry and personal walk with Jesus. Whether you’re a pastor, leader, or disciple-maker, you’ll walk away with practical insights on creating a culture where discipleship is woven into the very fabric of your community.
E. K. Strawser (DO, Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine) is the co-vocational lead pastor of Ma Ke Alo o (which means “presence” in Hawaiian)—non-denominational missional communities multiplying in Honolulu—and a community physician at Ke Ola Pono. She is the founder of `Iwa Collaborative, a consulting and content-developing firm to empower kingdom-grounded leaders to navigate change, grow adaptive capacity, and foster local flourishing. She is the author of Centering Discipleship, and she and Steve have three seriously amazing children.
In Season 6, we’re diving into discipleship—exploring what it means to follow Jesus and share Jesus in our everyday lives and how churches can cultivate a culture of discipleship that is more than curriculum within their communities.
Related Resources:
Discipleship Reset – a week-long live training experience designed to equip the leaders of the average North American church for the opportunities of 2025. You can still receive access to the replay of all sessions (for FREE!). freshexpressions.com/discipleship-reset
Email us: podcasts@freshexpressions.com
Interview Summary
“If discipleship is not happening in a Sunday morning service, then you ask—where is it happening?” — E.K. Strawser
In this episode of the Fresh Expressions podcast, host Heather Jallad sits down with E.K. Strawser, co-lead pastor in Honolulu and author of Centering Discipleship. Together, they discuss the urgent need to redefine discipleship, moving beyond programmatic thinking and toward an integrated, community-driven journey of faith.
Many churches struggle with equating church attendance with discipleship. Yet, as Heather and E.K. explore, true discipleship is deeply relational and contextual. This conversation calls leaders to shift their focus from Sunday service metrics to the real measure of discipleship: how lives and communities are transformed through following Jesus.
Discipleship Is Not a Program—It’s a Journey
One of the most common misconceptions about discipleship is that it can be neatly packaged into a curriculum or program. Churches often assume they can “plug and play” a discipleship model that has worked elsewhere. However, as E.K. points out, discipleship is relational and contextual, meaning it must be shaped by the local community rather than imposed from the outside.
Discipleship also requires mutuality. It is not simply about a leader imparting wisdom to others but rather about walking together in faith. Importantly, there is no “graduation” from discipleship—it is a lifelong journey of formation.
“We tend to think discipleship is a plug-and-play model, but it’s really about how we live, work, and engage in community together.” – Heather Jallad
The Dangers of Privatizing or Universalizing Discipleship
E.K. identifies two significant pitfalls in how churches often approach discipleship: privatization and universalization.
- Privatization: Some churches treat discipleship as purely an individual matter—a personal relationship between a believer and Jesus. While personal faith is important, this approach ignores the necessity of communal formation and accountability within a faith community.
- Universalization: Other churches assume a one-size-fits-all discipleship method. This can lead to cultural and contextual blind spots, making the assumption that a model that worked in one setting will work in another.
E.K. warns against both extremes:
“Many conversations around discipleship happen in one of these two places: either it’s completely privatized, or it’s universalized to the point of assimilation. But discipleship is both deeply personal and deeply communal.”
Instead, she advocates for an approach that is grounded in relationships and shaped by the specific context of the church and its surrounding community.
Leadership Must Shift from “Heroic” to “Shared”
A significant barrier to effective discipleship is the leadership model many churches adopt. Too often, church leadership is centered around a single, “heroic” figure—the pastor—who is expected to be the primary spiritual authority and decision-maker. However, as E.K. emphasizes, this is not how Jesus led.
“Jesus didn’t just gather followers—he prepared them to go out and make disciples. He worked himself out of a job,” – E.K. Strawser
This means that pastors must transition from being the central figures of their church to equipping and releasing others into discipleship.
Luke 10 states: “Jesus sent out the 70—or the 72. He was multiplying the mission through his followers, not just holding onto it himself.”
This shift requires moving away from a transactional model of ministry (where people consume religious services) and toward an apprenticeship model, where leaders intentionally develop and empower others to step into their own roles in discipleship and mission.
Discipleship is Measured by Community Impact, Not Attendance
For too long, churches have measured success primarily by attendance numbers. However, Heather and E.K. argue that true discipleship should be measured by transformation, not attendance. Instead of asking “How many people came to church this Sunday?” churches should ask:
- Are people growing in patience, love, and Christlikeness?
- Is our church helping our city, neighborhood, or town flourish?
- If our church disappeared tomorrow, would anyone notice?
E.K. shares a compelling story of a discipleship group that started by serving a local low-income senior living facility. Over time, their relationships with the residents deepened, leading them to provide a month’s worth of groceries for hundreds of seniors during the COVID-19 pandemic. Later, the city government took notice and invited the church to expand its outreach into other underserved senior communities.
“If you want to know what the metric of discipleship is in your church, one of those metrics has to be that your community, your neighborhood, your city is paying attention,” E.K. explains. “They start opening doors to you because they see the transformation happening through your church.”
This, she argues, is true discipleship—not just internal spiritual growth, but real, tangible impact on the world around us.
How Churches Can Begin Centering Discipleship
For pastors and church leaders looking to shift discipleship from the periphery to the center, E.K. suggests three key steps:
1. Start with Who God Has Already Given You
Before launching any new discipleship initiatives, take stock of the people God has already placed in your congregation. Instead of wishing for different leaders or members, focus on discipling the people you have right now.
2. Build a Discipleship Pathway, Not Just a Program
Rather than adopting a pre-packaged curriculum, churches should develop a flexible discipleship pathway that is tailored to their unique context. This should:
- Be relational, not just educational.
- Be adaptable to different ages, backgrounds, and learning styles.
- Foster both spiritual confidence (growth in faith) and social competence (knowing how to live as a follower of Jesus in the real world).
3. Rethink the Church’s Metrics for Success
Instead of relying on attendance numbers, churches should measure:
- Personal transformation: Are individuals growing in faith and Christlikeness?
- Communal transformation: Is the church body maturing together in love and mission?
- Neighborhood impact: Is the surrounding community flourishing because the church is present?
Reflection Questions
- How does your church currently define and measure discipleship?
- How can your church create a discipleship pathway rather than a program?
- In what ways can your church engage more deeply with the surrounding community?
- If your church closed tomorrow, what impact (if any) would it leave on your neighborhood?
- What role does mentorship and apprenticeship play in your church’s discipleship efforts?
- How can you begin casting a vision for discipleship that includes not just personal growth, but also community transformation?
