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Why is it that we can be surrounded by people—even friends—and still feel so lonely? Alan Hirsch, renowned missional thinker, has an idea about this that he calls “communitas.”
In this conversation, Alan helps us explore what it means to be a community on mission and how that could transform our churches into places where we experience both belonging and purpose.
Alan Hirsch is an award-winning author of numerous books on missional spirituality, leadership, and organization. He is founder of Movement Leaders Collective, Forge Missional Training Network, and the 5Q Collective.
Joining the conversation this week with Host Heather Jallad and guest Alan Hirsch is Luke Edwards. Luke is the Associate Director of Church Development for the Western North Carolina Conference of the United Methodist Church and a trainer for Fresh Expressions US. He was the founding pastor of King Street Church, a network of fresh expressions in Boone, NC. Participating in local, regional, and national levels of the Fresh Expressions movement has given Luke a unique perspective into the future of the mainline church in a post-Christian society.
In season 5 of the Fresh Expressions podcast, we’re exploring the loneliness epidemic that is sweeping across North America and learning how new kinds of Christian community can help.
Related Resources:
The Faith of Leap: Embracing a Theology of Risk, Adventure, and Courage (Revised Edition) by Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch
Email us: podcasts@freshexpressions.com
Interview Summary
“We have largely, I think, a deeply risk-averse notion of community. Under the conditions of liminality, many didn’t allow the danger to force them to unlearn.” – Alan Hirsch
The Fresh Expressions podcast continues to explore how innovative faith communities address contemporary challenges. In this episode, host Heather Jallad speaks with missional thought leader Alan Hirsch, joined by co-host Luke Edwards. Together, they tackle the loneliness epidemic, rediscovering the transformative power of risk and community.
Liminality and Communitas
Alan Hirsch introduced the anthropological concepts of liminality and communitas, highlighting their relevance for the church today. Liminality refers to a transitional or disorienting space where individuals or groups face risk, uncertainty, or danger. Hirsch explained that in such spaces, people often form deep bonds of interdependence, a phenomenon known as communitas. Drawing on examples from persecuted movements like the Chinese underground church and rites of passage in African cultures, he illustrated how adversity forces people into authentic community.
“What holds them together is the common struggle. They need each other to survive. They’re never going to do this alone.” Alan Hirsch
These experiences often lead to camaraderie and a renewed sense of mission, offering a stark contrast to the “weaker” forms of fellowship many Western churches experience today.
The Church’s Missed Opportunity During COVID-19
The pandemic was a crucible moment for the church, revealing both its fragility and its potential for innovation. Hirsch critiqued how many churches retreated into their comfort zones rather than embracing the opportunity to rethink ecclesiology.
“The church isn’t closing—it’s opening up in thousands of other places.” – Alan Hirsch
Hirsch recounted the words of a senior pastor who saw the pandemic as a chance for distributed networks of worship. Instead of leaning into this potential, many leaders “doubled down” on traditional models of church. Heather Jallad reflected on this with a hint of frustration, admitting, “I think I might have said that once or twice in the midst of the pandemic. It made some people really mad.” This failure to adapt highlights a persistent risk-aversion in Western ecclesial systems, which Hirsch argues will accelerate the decline of traditional church models unless addressed.
Risk as a Catalyst for Growth
Throughout the conversation, Hirsch emphasized the transformative power of shared risk and adventure. He lamented the middle-class obsession with safety and convenience, which often prevents churches from stepping into the unknown. “We have largely, I think, a deeply risk-averse notion of community,” he remarked, noting that liminal spaces provide high-leverage opportunities for growth. Luke Edwards added that even small acts of stepping out, such as participating in local service projects, can ignite deeper community bonds. Hirsch agreed, recounting stories of churches taking bold steps, like building homes in Tijuana for families living on garbage heaps. These acts of service not only transformed the lives of the recipients but also fostered a profound sense of “communitas” among participants.
“It’s not death-defying, but it would cost you something to get out of your comfort zone.” – Alan Hirsch
Practical Applications for Fresh Expressions
One of the core themes of the episode was the importance of translating these ideas into actionable steps for faith communities. Hirsch and Jallad encouraged leaders to design opportunities for their congregations to experience liminal spaces together. These might include short-term mission trips, local service initiatives, or even creative team-building exercises. Hirsch described the value of ritualizing such experiences, saying, “In order to be a member of our church, you have to go and help build a house for the poor… It’s a rite of passage.” These structured challenges, he explained, not only foster deeper relationships but also align participants more closely with the mission of the church. Jallad highlighted the Walk to Emmaus experience as an example, where participants relinquish their everyday comforts and form bonds through shared spiritual exploration. Such practices can be transformative, creating a rhythm of stepping into risk and returning to a renewed sense of purpose.
Stories of Hope and Innovation
The conversation was punctuated by inspiring stories of communities embracing the principles of risk and communitas. Hirsch shared the example of a Los Angeles church, Tribe of LA, which emerged from the Burning Man arts culture. This unconventional congregation embraced pilgrimage as a form of worship, participating annually in the transformative, gift-oriented economy of Burning Man. “It’s a schlep getting to the playa,” Hirsch admitted, “but it’s a remarkable event where we rediscovered what it means to journey together as a community.” Edwards added his own reflections, pointing to fresh expressions thriving among marginalized groups, such as those addressing addiction, incarceration, or racism. “These are by a mile our most transformative ones,” Edwards noted, emphasizing the power of shared struggle in forming authentic and resilient communities. Whether in the desert of Nevada or the streets of Appalachia, these examples illustrate the potential for the church to be a beacon of hope when it steps out in faith.
The episode ends with a challenge: How can we reimagine church as a network of interconnected, mission-driven communities? Hirsch calls on leaders to embrace risk and uncertainty as a pathway to rediscovering the heart of faith.
“The reality is not many people want to do that, but it’s what we must do to stay faithful to our calling.” – Alan Hirsch
Reflection Questions
- How does your faith community respond to moments of risk or uncertainty?
- What does “community” mean in your context, and how could it be deepened?
- How has the pandemic reshaped your understanding of church?
- Have you experienced a “liminal” moment that strengthened your faith?
- What fears or barriers keep you from embracing risk in your spiritual life?
- How can we make our churches places of innovation rather than preservation?
- What role does storytelling play in building authentic connections?
- How do we include marginalized voices in shaping the future of the church?
